How to Know if Your Church Is False (and Why It Probably Has to Be)

Discussion in Off Topic Discussion & General Questions started by mythman • Jun 3, 2014.

  1. mythman

    mythmanActive Member

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    Lord Jesus Christ said that church is like a hospital where the sick go to get better. But most of the Christian churches I go to are full of sickos who don't want to get better!

    Like God said through the prophet Haggai, they 'sit secure in their paneled houses, while God's house remains in ruins!' (That was referring to the temple of Solomon, destroyed in the Babylonian conquest; but it applies just as much to 'the human body'---the temple of the Living God, which I think will lead to better-establish

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    if they start a physical-fitness ministry.)

    No, they don't want to get better until God strikes them with a lack of blessing-- that is, -until they lose when they fail to take a blessing God grants. And then, they don't want to be told "it's their fault!"

    That gets us into why churches HAVE to be false: people go to church because it's positive fellowship with people---an opportunity to "show off" your blessings as others show theirs. But that's not what Jesus says you go to the sanctuary for! He says you go to find out 'what's wrong with you.' But if YOU went expecting 'positive fellowship' and instead had everyone telling you 'what's wrong with you,' would YOU frequently return to that church?
     
  2. Aprax

    ApraxMember

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    Most of the religious people I know don't even attend church regularly. Only on certain holidays.
     
  3. mythman

    mythmanActive Member

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    Am I anywhere-close to describing 'why that is' above?
     
  4. VTEC 9/12/44

    VTEC 9/12/44Member

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    And why do the two have to me mutually exclusive? Can't we go to a church or some place of worship that says "This is what's wrong with you but we can help you with that and support you on the way to become better, if it's what you want."? There has to be the proper mix of both and sometimes we can't help people and just have to back off until they do want help with things. That is about personal responsibility on the part of those who should be mending their ways.

    Also, it is not our place to judge others, even if you are correct and they are, as you say, "sickos", and it can be frustrating to be around them. According to your bible, that is God's job.
    If this is about physical fitness, then God would understand if there is some reason nature or nurture has provided that prevents people from being in the best physical condition, such as thyroid problems and hang-ups about food and exercise that they have to sort out themselves.
    If this is about being mentally, spiritually or emotionally fit, then I think it best that each of us work on our own wellness in that area and help others if it is requested by those others. Sometimes people are born with chemical imbalances in their brains or into an environment which promoted activities considered to be sinful. It isn't always their fault, although sometimes it is. Circumstances can be important.

    One doesn't need to attend church to be religious. The Holidays are special occasions and if you can't attend regularly, if there are reasons you can't such as work and school and other things, it's perfectly alright to just carry the spirit of the thing in your heart and simply do acts of kindness, compassion and courteousness.
     
    #4Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  5. thomas pendrake

    thomas pendrakeActive Member

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    Perhaps you need to go to other churches. If the Holy Ghost is present, you will feel the love the moment you approach the church. That does not mean that there will be speaking in tongues, that means that the Love of the Holy Ghost will be there. There may be lesser gifts such as speaking in tongues or prophecies, but there must be love, the greatest of gifts of the Holy Spirit. The term Charity is used in some places to mean Christian Love.
     
  6. mythman

    mythmanActive Member

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    "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into Heaven." That's often misinterpreted 'holy are the poor alone; you wanna be holy, you better get poor'; it just means 'don't be so attached to your posessions that you're too distracted (by keeping them securely yours) that you miss the lift to the Kingdom.'

    That means that church-leaders have to serve as 'gateway-filters'---STOPPING people from focusing so-much on their personal possessions ... that's why the early church had parishoners give ALL their riches to the church, re-disstributing evenly among them.

    According to the Bible, God is THE HEAD of His body the church. He is the Judge, the church is the executioner.

    Oh, Satan makes you feel reeeeeeeel good too! And I think the word translated 'charity' and 'love' is agape---a brotherly love, a love that lifts the loved ones up that they can fulfill the glory of God.

    How is that supposed to "feel"? To me, that would 'feel' like "help"---'helping' me perform the task the Lord has set before us ... to help "make disciples of all."
     
  7. VTEC 9/12/44

    VTEC 9/12/44Member

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    So we were actually discussing greed? Ah, I see, my fault for not realizing and picking up on that. :) I agree that material possessions are not as important as one's spirit.


    This is what I was trying to say, for the most part, even if I'm not that great with expressing it. Leave these things in God's hands and lift those cares off your own shoulders. He's been taking care of us for years, let Him take care of them. I don't know how the church is the executioner, but, if you see it that way then that's how you see it. I'm sure I'm just the teensiest bit confused by the analogy and I will soon figure it out.

    Yes, loving your neighbor is very important, too. However, you can only do so much for neighbors who do not wish to become disciples. No one can force people to turn to God and be good. Love for God must come willingly or else it is false and hollow, without substance of feeling or agape.
    I think what thomas pendrake meant was that if you felt discontent with how things are at your church, then you should either talk to someone about it, seeking council from those who work there and asking them about your concerns, or leave and find someplace you can feel more at home and closer to God. It had nothing to do with how temptation can feel, which is what I think you mean by referencing satan.
     
    #7Jun 10, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
  8. JaydonTyler

    JaydonTylerActive Member

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    Your religion would have died off long ago if not for "satan". Without the fear of hell, there would be no Christianity.

    Religion has started more wars then money and drugs combined. Christianity teaches you to fear imaginary forces. They are imaginary. After all, there is literally 0 evidence they exist. Why not be a good person without the "fear" and lies?

    If you really believed, death would be a time to celebrate, but who does that? If you really believed, you would not fear death at all.
     
  9. mythman

    mythmanActive Member

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    'Greed' is one name for such attachment. It's like the door to Heaven is too small to get through if you're carrying all your stuff.

    What I was saying: we ARE the hands of God!

    You've heard the AA-maxim "Fake it `til you make it"? (That's basically saying 'Make the alcohol impossible to get (no matter HOW bad you want it) until you really truly DON'T want it.') That's kinda what I'm thinking about churches (as models of 'Heaven'): their doors should be too small to get through hanging on to all your stuff, and--with the goodness you experience within--you don't really WANT all your stuff (but it is given unto you on your return to the world).

    And the temptation---THAT is "feelings." If people are going to church to 'feel' something, they're NOT going for the TRUE God :mad:

    If that's how the world views it, that's what the world says. If you think we all start from nothing & return to nothing, how are you less-hopeless than those who imagine something better?

    What deadly force was NOT imagined first? How long would mankind live WITHOUT fear? Would you rather believe what you're told, or ignore all curiosity?

    The dead celebrate death.

    We fear the inability to help others.
     
  10. VTEC 9/12/44

    VTEC 9/12/44Member

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    Thank you, mythman, for explaining your point of view about things and clearing up any confusion I had as to what exactly you were trying to convey. I can see you are a man who is passionate about his faith, and I admire that in a person. I had to look it up in order to understand but now I see what you're talking about.

    Feeling good shouldn't be the main reason one goes to church, as the main reason should be to learn, but the church should be a community that encourages each other like a family and, thus, makes one feel good and strengthens the spirit so that we can be better and do better things. Am I getting closer to learning?

    Also, it is unfortunate, JaydonTyler, that people have felt that war was the only way to settle disagreements. Those people weren't really adhering to their faith as it teaches to do things like that peacefully. They were hypocrites, using religious faith to justify the conquering of others to increase what they have.

    It is my belief that death is a natural phenomina. We, as humans in general, mourn because we will miss that person in our lives. We also celebrate their life by talking about the good times and laughing at the funny things they used to say and do. We can only hope that death is a better place but we really have nothing but our own personal beliefs to fall back on. As you say, there is no evidence. The fear of death, and the unknown things that might be bad for us and of getting tempted and tricked, is a natural survival instinct in all living beings.
     
    #10Jun 12, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  11. mythman

    mythmanActive Member

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    Yeah, I think that's closer to the point I was getting-to :D that 'many parts of one body'-picture of the church. Jesus said "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; better to go to Heaven maimed then to stay whole & go to Hell." (Of course, I think the church--and thereby the world at large--has a wrong picture of Heaven & Hell ... I'll bring that up later ...)

    The point is that I apply that 'instruction' to the church---and yes, I've been that bad body-part on one particular church-plant before and--along with its other problems--helped to end that church-plant. But now I see that--if a church-member does not have thee church's goals in mind when attending the church--they really need to not be there :mad: (I know that sounds harsh, but it's true ... if your arm is thoroughly infected, sometimes it's easier to cut it off.)
     
  12. VTEC 9/12/44

    VTEC 9/12/44Member

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    Thank you again. I like learning about others beliefs. Anyway, I'm afraid I've gotten us a bit off topic with my questions.
    I suppose it's not a bad thing if it helped reduce your stress, mythman, with the people of your church, and people in general. We can all learn something from each other no matter what we choose to have as our religion.

    Also, I see I've failed to answer one of JaydonTyler's questions. "Why not just be a good person?" Of course, we can just be good people! I try to do that every day and I would love for that to happen with others, it would make me less afraid of joining the workforce and having someone yell at me for their bad days. We all have the capacity for this. Unfortunately, having the ability doesn't always mean someone would want to do that, especially when they feel that it would be better to advance themselves even when it hurts others. That's when crimes occur, both small and big. What must happen is for people to be taught empathy and forethought. If we can imagine what it's like for a person to have something happen to them before we do that to them, if we stop and think about it first, it is more likely that we adopt a kinder attitude. The principle of reciprocity should also be taught, like the "golden rule", "karma", and that whole "coming back to you times three" that some beliefs have. What goes around comes around.
     
  13. Ruffled

    RuffledNew Member

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    Most of what society thinks is right, is wrong. The church is no different. We have our priorities all screwed up but we don't see that because we all just want to "follow the leader". That's my opinion at least.
     
  14. VTEC 9/12/44

    VTEC 9/12/44Member

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    We want to follow the leader because we desire acceptance. Humans are social creatures, by nature, and we care about others opinions about us because we don't want to be ostracized and left alone and lonely. We also learn a lot of our priorities by what our culture thinks should be emphasized. Society may be wrong, but if it's all we've ever known, if we were born and raised into it and believe it to be right, how, without learning from others and opening our minds up to other possibilities, can we ever learn any better? That is exactly why I am learning from both mythman and JadonTyler. And I like hearing your opinion as well, Ruffled.
     
  15. thomas pendrake

    thomas pendrakeActive Member

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    Do you really ​think evil is imaginary? If you think there is zero evidence that it exists, then zero is probably a good number for your IQ.