Harvard Or Hard Work?

Discussion in Off Topic Discussion & General Questions started by iamawriter • Jul 14, 2017.

  1. iamawriter

    iamawriterActive Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Threads:
    32
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    119
    There is this ambition for everyone to get into the best colleges to attain degrees. But attaining degrees is not enough to be successful in life. There are cases where many have reached heights without getting into any of those prestigious colleges merely by dint of hard work.

    What is your choice Harvard or hard work?
     
  2. NinetyEighty1

    NinetyEighty1Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    Threads:
    95
    Messages:
    478
    Likes Received:
    84
    As a college student I would have to say you are better off with hard work and just using your brains. You should only go to college if you truly know what you want to do with your life and the classes at Harvard can help you. Right now, I'm struggling financially with college so I suggest doing a bit of work and have a good idea of what you want as a career.
     
  3. iamawriter

    iamawriterActive Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Threads:
    32
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    119
    @NinetyEighty1@NinetyEighty1 As long as those who you work for look at your capability and not your degrees all is well. Sadly these multi nationals will not even call anyone for interview if they do not see the names of those prestigious colleges in their CV. Companies also stand to lose with this mind set.
     
    #3Jul 16, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  4. NinetyEighty1

    NinetyEighty1Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    Threads:
    95
    Messages:
    478
    Likes Received:
    84
    @iamawriter@iamawriter That is unfortunately the case in mean instances.At least nowadays that is, if it is not college it is the years of experience you had in said field. There is always the option of an online college, it is much cheaper. Have you considered that?
     
    #4Jul 17, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  5. iamawriter

    iamawriterActive Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Threads:
    32
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    119
    @NinetyEighty1@NinetyEighty1 This is not about me. I am a senior but have seen around me the frustration of the talented youngsters can go nowhere just because they do not have a college degree. They must show their talent and someone must recognise then . When that happens sky will be the limit for them and youngsters must not lose hope.
     
    #5Jul 17, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  6. Theo

    TheoWell-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2014
    Threads:
    308
    Messages:
    2,880
    Likes Received:
    726
    @iamawriter@iamawriter I went to Harvard and it's a misconception that it is easy. Being at Harvard is hard work, you have to study harder as people expect more from you. I don't think one should be making such statements unless they have been to Harvard because you don't know what it's like. Everyone has to work hard, maybe the very rich don't such as Trump and his family who may have barely passed but got in because of large donations.

    College is a place to network and to learn about the self, and while yes it does cost money, Harvard has a high percentage of grants given to those who cannot afford tuition.
     
    #6Jul 17, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2017
  7. iamawriter

    iamawriterActive Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Threads:
    32
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    119
    When such a statement is made I do not think they mean that there is no hard work at Harvard but simply emphasising that on the job training could yield better results. Those who come from Harvard will head a Department or Company but will not have that experience someone who has come up the ladder would have.
     
  8. Theo

    TheoWell-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2014
    Threads:
    308
    Messages:
    2,880
    Likes Received:
    726
    @iamawriter@iamawriter That again is not true and some people will have had experience and have worked their way up, and also been to Harvard. Harvard and other Ivy League Colleges may get you an interview, but not always the job.

    On the job training is one thing, but it does matter who you know and also what training you have had, which is why some companies allow staff to study, and even pay for it. Some jobs you need that piece of paper to allow you to qualify for a position. It's not like the old days where you can work your way up from the post room. That's in movies.
     
    #8Jul 18, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2017
  9. iamawriter

    iamawriterActive Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Threads:
    32
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    119
    @Theo@Theo There is a thing called orientation and that would mean learning the ropes all over again. Each Company has their own strategies. One cannot possibly say that at Harvard it was different and then start a discussion. That is not encouraged.
    A Harvard graduate will want to be employed as a marketing manager and to get there one has to first be a salesman, regional manager, sales manager and finally marketing manager. If you owned an organisation would you employ a Harvard graduate as marketing manager in your set up without going through those steps?
     
    #9Jul 19, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2017
  10. preacherbob50

    preacherbob50Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Threads:
    7
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    7
    @iamawriter@iamawriter I would in a heartbeat.
    The easiest example of big business and it's workings can be ensampled by the military. The top brass doesn't necessarily know how to drive a tank, work with radar, or communications. He's not the best shot, cook nutritional food, lead PT, train troops, fly a helicopter or a jet or even fix a jeep.
    But, what he DOES know is tactics, situational scope, personnel management, protocol, etc. which are taught in military colleges such as West Point or Annapolis.

    All under personnel with positions such as a radar or a tech specialist must go to special schools but chances are will never progress beyond that of an NCO unless they go to an officer's school.

    I used the military as a major example of business because at its very core, it really is a business whether you or anyone believes it or not.

    ALL highly successful businesses follow the same example I gave. The CEO of a pharmaceutical company doesn't know beans about how to make a polio vaccine but he does know how to find the people who do. He also knows how to create production, find the right people to market the product, price the product, do labor analytics and the list goes on. The bottom line is that the CEO will always be an IVY league graduate. In essence, he's TRAINED to lead and no amount of unschooled ladder climbing will prepare someone to take his position.
     
    #10Jul 19, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2017
  11. kamai

    kamaiActive Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Threads:
    12
    Messages:
    868
    Likes Received:
    175
    Where I live I have noticed that what counts more it's actually having experience more than having a degree. Yes a degree looks good but most companies would want thier workers to inniciate work right away and not lose time having to train the workers for too long. Well at least that's what my boss said where I was hired I already had two years experience and no degree and I earned very well.
     
  12. preacherbob50

    preacherbob50Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Threads:
    7
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    7
    Within the confines of the world's few billion people the are only two catagories in which a person falls into: Natural followers and Natural leaders.

    Followers only have to choose whom they wish to follow and how far they wish to follow them. No matter how much experience they get and how many people they have behind them, they will always be behind the leader.

    Leaders will automatically go for a higher education in the field they wish to pursue and with their education be able to ascertain what type of followers they wish to have behind them.

    There's an old adage that goes: In a pack of dogs, it is only the lead dog who's scenery ever changes.
     
  13. tonyb

    tonybActive Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Threads:
    36
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    152
    As for me it's hard work that's necessary for success and not Harvard. One thing a degree remains a degree irrespective of the university or college awarding it. What matters is how idealistic the individual is and ready to take actions and work in that line to succeed in life. The thinking that one should go to Harvard to excel in life in my calculation is just being archaic and lazy.
     
  14. iamawriter

    iamawriterActive Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Threads:
    32
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    119
    @preacherbob50@preacherbob50 Thanks for spending time to be here. I much appreciate it. I do not think we are on the same page. There are countless departments and sections in each and every set up and that includes the military. I agree with you to reach the top level one does not have to first know how to cook. But there is a strategy that they need to follow There are exams that they need to pass - in other words on the job training. And then there is the age to be taken into account.
     
    #14Jul 20, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2017
  15. iamawriter

    iamawriterActive Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Threads:
    32
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    119
    @tonyb@tonyb I have been with a multi national and have seen how these youngsters who come with great degrees have to go through the grind of orientation and have heard them speak how useless their degrees have been. The product sells because of its quality and not because someone with a Harvard degree is selling it.
     
    #15Jul 20, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2017
  16. preacherbob50

    preacherbob50Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Threads:
    7
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    7
    @iamawriter@iamawriter The CEO of Liberty Mutual doesn't sell insurance, he has people without degrees selling it.
    It would seem that you might possibly be fighting hard not to recognize the value of a college education because you yourself have not gone that distance.
    I have NEVER ever said that everyone has to have one in order to achieve some degree of financial success in life, but that said, if you check the math the averages speak for the self. Those people with at least a bachelors degree will inevitably earn at least 20% more than his or her peers who do not have a degree.

    I used the military to show organizational structure as it applies to the business world but I'll go one step further. The United States military will barely allow anyone to enlist without at least a high school diploma and preferably at least a bachelors degree in ANYTHING.
    It shows that an enlisted member is willing to learn and work hard to achieve success.
     
    #16Jul 21, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2017
  17. iamawriter

    iamawriterActive Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Threads:
    32
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    119
    @preacherbob50@preacherbob50 This has nothing to do with me or my qualifications. Here we write what the world experiences. I have met these highly qualified people and know about how little of what they have learnt in those prestigious colleges they get to use in their jobs and this is the bare truth. It is time organisations paid more attention to EQ than IQ while searching to employing people,

    @kamai@kamai I have worked for a multi national and had the opportunity to screen applications for high flying jobs. I have taken the liberty to discard those who have come from those prestigious colleges with no experience whatsoever but have retained those with moderate qualifications but with experience.

    @Theo@Theo Those who are employed because they know someone will be a load on the company as their performance will not be up to the mark. You are right when you say that some companies allow their employees to go for further studies but these studies are invariably those that benefit the company in question.

    The sad part however is companies blindly reject those who have a high EQ but do not have degrees from prestigious colleges. This mind set should change so that companies and those with natural capabilities stand to gain.
     
    #17Jul 22, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2017
  18. Zero

    ZeroActive Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Threads:
    0
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    33
    Well it's a sensitive subject, since both of them can make your life easier and at the same time become futile.
     
  19. iamawriter

    iamawriterActive Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Threads:
    32
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    119
    @Zero@Zero Ultimately it depends on the individual what ticks for them. No doubt a degree from a prestigious institute does carry weight because that is how the world looks at it as of today. But that will leave behind the truly talented.
     
    #19Jul 28, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2017
  20. Jamille

    JamilleActive Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Threads:
    11
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    111
    @iamawriter@iamawriter Why would it leave the truly talented behind? The 'truly talented' should be able to find a way to rise about their financial limitations, get scholarships or sponsorship for their studies, or even work while studying if they want to get to the top of their field. I think it is inaccurate to assume that a Harvard education and hard work are mutually exclusive. FYI, just getting to Harvard is hard work. Not everyone can go to Harvard, even if they do have the money for it. High IQ does not even guarantee that they'll accept you. You'll need a well-rounded resume to get to schools like Harvard. The stringent application process and the quality of education demands the best out of its students and companies do recognize this. They are trained to be leaders and managers and are given internship opportunities. Even the likes of Mark Zuckerberg aren't assured of getting a place at Harvard.

    The fact that some people achieve success without going to prestigious schools does not negate the value of getting one's degree from these schools. In fact, if you just bother to check the lives of those who have achieved success through hard work instead of college degree, you'll find that they're making sure that their children are going to prestigious schools. It is true that not all Ivy League graduates will be successful, but it is even more so for those who rely on hard work and don't make themselves worthy of truly high positions by way of further education and training.

    People with opportunities to go to prestigious schools should take it in order to get the best training and learning environment for themselves. However, this option is not for everyone. Hard work, however, is an option that everyone can take.

    This calls to mind the 'truly talented' Priscilla Chan, the first lady of Facebook, who rose from her humble beginnings to become a Harvard-educated teacher and later on, doctor. Her parents were Chinese refugees who ran away from Vietnam in boats and never had college education yet they worked 18 hours to make sure that their children will have a better life. There are countless other parents like them who sacrifice each day to give their children the advantage they never had.
     
    #20Aug 18, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2017