I am on a mission to find the really good eyeliner. The kind that looks as black around your eye as it does on the stick. I'm sure it's out there, but best case scenerio for me lately has been "it'll look okay if I put on several layers, and then it has to be thick" I'm going to check out ELF. I've never tried them before. As a matter of fact I never knew it existed before some ladies told me about it on another post. Anybody have any ideas about which eyeliner is the really good stuff?